This may be one of those questions that might expose my half-baked knowledge in this field, so I thank the experts patiently explaining this to me in advance.

  1. What is the fuss about web browser engines?

As I can see, there have been many web browser engines in the past; most defunct / unmaintained and the three: blink, gecko and webkit being the only ones actively developed and maintained today (I am aware of Goanna, but some articles online say it isn’t being developed anymore – I could be wrong). What is stopping someone; say the FSF or some other group championing libre software from coming up with their own web engine completely different from the incumbent engines? I understand that not all web features will work with every engine, but surely we need more diversity than just the existing three to spur more development, right? Many software including the Linux kernel had humble beginnings and if enough people find it to be a suitable alternative, they might slowly jump ship to this new hypothetical web engine that was built using GPL3 from scratch.

  1. What is stopping web developers from simply shunning Google’s Manifest V3?

I haven’t seen or heard of one single good thing about Manifest V3 from any web developer (at least the six that I know personally), and have only read articles on why it is either unnecessary, or that the proposed advantages can easily be done is a less disruptive manner. While I appreciate that the internet today runs a lot on Google’s infrastructure and services, surely if Web Devs tell them to go pound sand, or intentionally break the site when using Google Chrome, and put a message saying, “Go to Firefox / Safari for a better experience”, that will make Google backtrack.

Once again, I apologise for these basic / daft questions. I appreciate any insight that you may have for me.

  • verdigris@lemmy.ml
    49·
    20 days ago

    The fundamental problem is that a web engine is one of the most massively complex pieces of software that we currently use. There are a ridiculous number of standards and behaviors that a modern web browser needs to implement, as well as a whole host of security implications that need constant updating. It’s not like the majority of other software projects, where a determined solo dev or even small group can strike out on their own. It really requires a team of dozens or hundreds of developers putting in consistent effort, which basically means a corporate entity.

    • Zerush@lemmy.ml
      12·
      20 days ago

      Agree, and this is why there are only three engines out there since more than 20 Years (+2 testiminial forks, Goanna (Gecko) and Qt (Blink), apart of KHTML only used by KDE in its Konqueror, grandfather of WebKit and Blink).

      But the engine nowadays isn’t the main problem and pretty irrelevant, the main problem is that Google control 3/4 part of the websites, imposing it’s standart. All engines are FOSS and every company and dev can adapt these to his like. Chromiums are struggeling now with Mv3, but mostly due to the extensions frm the Chrome Store, not so with inbuild features (adblocker and other related privacy functions), in other extensions related to the UI, translators, tabs and similar, it’s irrelevant for the user if it is Mv2 or Mv3.

      In the choice of a browser there are only few questions

      • Does it fit my needs?
      • Does it spy my data and activity? (Chrome, Edge, Opera after v12)
      • Has it regular security updates?
      • A good support and active community?
      • Is it stable and save?

      That are mainly the points, but as said, arguing about which browser is better is arguing about the wrong problem, which are the web standarts, not the browsers.

        • Zerush@lemmy.ml
          1·
          16 days ago

          Yes, there are three engines since 20 years (apart of some testimonil modifications and forks), because the engine is the most complex part of the browser and creating a new engine from skratch is a work for a huge amount of devs for several years. No browser company can affort to do this and stay out of the market for years until the release of their browser.

          • rhabarba@feddit.org
            1·
            16 days ago

            Yes, there are three engines since 20 years

            If, and only if, you skip NetSurf’s own one and Dillo’s own one and the numerous text-mode engines like GNU Emacs’s one, w3m et cetera, this number might be close to the whole truth. But I don’t see why you would do that.

            • Zerush@lemmy.ml
              1·
              16 days ago

              Netsurf use the WebView render, it’s also used by Edge as part of the OS and Chromium. Text browser have a way simpler engine, because they don’t need a graphic engine to render an webpage. The current engines in modern browsers are 3 and some variations, Goanna is a modified Gecko, and WebView, Qt, are Blink variants, Link was an improvement from WebKit and KHTML. Before there was Presto which is obsolete since a lot of years. The other day I saw an startup , I forgot the name, which was collecting support for a new brwser with an independent engine developed from scratch, they talked about an alpha release in 2027. First I thought to put it in jokes, but better comenting it with “Good luck, guys”. In the Wiki is a list with over 70 abandoned and discontinued browser and browserprojects, a lot which also tried to make a different engine, even most of the existing browsers (~100) are fighting to survive in a saturated market. No chance to think in different engines as the existing ones.

    • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
      21·
      19 days ago

      … and for some reason, nobody’s compartmentalized the project. Even from-scratch upstarts are monolithic. What decade is it?