He spent half the weekend swearing at me and calling me names but then when I posted my data on his realtesla community he said he was loving rent free in me head, but when I replied with links to his ranting and raving here, he banned me for harassing mods!

I don’t really care about how irate and irrational he acts, he’s called me all kinds of nonsense just to get me to shut up but it didn’t work. He’s kind of given up now though. Spent all his energy and once he got closure banning me he calmed down a lot. Somehow he thinks it shows he wasn’t biased!

Your test is just saying what the car claimed. Same as ever, you trust Toyotas data unless it’s electric when you do some weird shit with your home electronics kit and magically prove the car is lying about it’s electrical efficiency.

If you think it’s lying about the electrical efficiency, why on earth do you quote its gas efficiency, and no, I don’t believe you turned off the regenerative breaking and just did a pure gas test either.

So yeah, I’m calling you out on your double standards when you’re posting “hey folks, don’t trust Toyotas data on electrical efficiency” in the same thread as “look, Toyotas data shows how efficient the car is on gas”.

I think it was because I linked to your shouty behaviour here. When it was just that I spend about a fifth as much on electricity as I did on petrol, you let it stand, but as soon as I linked to your rants over here it got mod deleted (by you).

I think you like to come across as fair and even handed when you’re just trying to score points against EVs, so you don’t want folks over there to see how abusive you got over here.

Apparently you’re not just willing to insult me, you’re willing to delete everything I said in realtesla where you’re a mod and ban me! Lol. Great debating technique from brave “dragontamer” right there.

Well, I can see that you’re going to protect your little EV hate club from anything that might be construed as good about pure EVs.

For the record, Musk is a dick and I won’t ever buy one of his cars, the after sales support is non existent and there are no buttons, only touch screens, but you were never looking for any points of agreement with me, you were only trying to shut me down for daring to question your wholehearted devotion to manufacturers gas efficiency claims.

Did you mod-delete my post on realtesla because it linked to your shouty behaviour here, or because you really genuinely think that it’s off topic to point out that it would have been fairer to treat the gas efficiency figures with the same skepticism as the electricity figures?

Oh and now your using your mod powers elsewhere to delete my posts! Lol.

I think the main reason that we don’t have a reasonable discussion is that you take even mild disagreement as a huge personal insult, fly off the handle and, swear and call me names rather than address any of the substance I ever posted. I pointed out that you quote manufacturers data on gas efficiency uncritically but are supremely skeptical about their electricity efficiency and you responded with rage that I dare question you. If you can’t debate people who even mildly disagree and you think your only recourse is insults shouting, I think that’s unusual, doesn’t support your position as much as you seem to think, and certainly doesn’t sweep away the impression of bias you were so angry about, far from it.

You explained elsewhere that the shouting, anger and insults are a debating technique you use to shut down dissent. I’m afraid it’s not quite cowering me into silence the way you wanted it to and it certainly doesn’t make me think you are at all objective or even handed.

Swearing at me doesn’t make your figures or methodology less one sided, I’m afraid.

I’m glad you found more peace with it and you’re less angry now. Can you take at face value that your skepticism was a little one sided now?

It would be wild if Biden pardoned him as a final act of his presidency. Absolutely wild.

I guess I just accept that I’m biased then.

The funny thing is that you really don’t think that you are, and that it’s just all the nasty EV drivers out to dupe you that their running costs were lower and you seem to think that everyone is lying and dishonest except you.

It doesn’t seem to occur to you that your electric costs are higher and your gas costs are lower than some people.

The other asshole hasn’t tested jack shit and is just bullshitting from his keyboard. I owe him, and you, nothing.

I think you mean me with the name calling!

Don’t pretend you did a big fair test when you did a small test and quoted manufacturer figures for the other side.

I have a few years of data, not a few hours of data like yours, and filling my fun to drive EV with electricity costs my about a fifth as much as filling my petrol car did each month, with the same commute. My data is based on what the electricity company actually charged me during the cheap tariff hours, not some weird calculation based on some electrical testing kit.

You seem to be ignoring and distrusting data that disagrees with your position and amplifying things that agree with it. I wonder if there’s a word for that kind of selective hearing.

Now tell me, am I actually wrong in any of this?

Most of it.

if the other guy in a discussion thinks you are biased, it’s a waste of time to engage in honest discussion.

This is you admitting that you are being dishonest?

make it clear that I intend to end the discussion unless they back down from the bias accusations.

You’ve been extending the argument for days. Doesn’t seem to be effective to me.

And it’s a waste of time, I need to make it clear in no uncertain terms that I’m ending the discussion ASAP

Not yet you haven’t.

If you see my point about bias then I’m happy with the words I’ve selected. It’s made it clear what I’m mad about. Second tip: if someone is insulting you and making you mad, it’s okay to be mad on the internet and show your emotions. We don’t have to be robots.

Personally, I think your anger makes you seem much more biased, not less at all.

The fact remains that I have hard numbers and have run the tests.

No, you didn’t run any gas tests, you just quoted Toyotas figures, and your data set for electricity is rather small.

My running costs are from years of actual electricity charges, not some home electricity kit, and I saved about 80% over my petrol car running costs, even before the cheaper servicing and better value retention.

I have very similar running costs per mile as you with my battery EV. For years now.

People who didn’t intend or want to ruin your day but did anyway because pointing out minor imperfections in your argument makes you mad?

You picked this one? This is the “your kind” you were referring to? You accept that I didn’t intend to ruin your day, but my criticism of your one sided skepticism is the beginning and the end of your problem and your anger?

You enjoy this and continue to post massive walls of text proving you are enjoying this.

You also write quite a lot. Are you having more fun than you seem to be?

A sane person would have called the mods on me and/or blocked me by now. Your actions though, to continue posting?

I’m not personally cross or angry just because you are. Baffled, yes. Whimpering? Absolutely not. I shrug. It’s weird how cross you got, but not personally upsetting to me, no. I gave up letting angry people dictate my emotions when I was still at school. You seem to think I need some authority figure to fight my verbal battles for me online or to silence you for swearing at me and shouting at me, but I didn’t feel as intimidated as you clearly wanted me to feel.

I think you should take a moment to reflect if you’re calling someone insane for not reporting your behaviour or blocking you.

Was it worth it? Did it have the effect you wanted? Did you convince more people or fewer people? Is it how you want to react next time someone disagrees with you online?

And I also think you need a moment of reflection about whether you made this post to share rational data or whether you’re just living out some kind of persecution fantasy about how EV enthusiasts wronged you. You keep thinking you made some massive gotcha in your data or in my criticism or my lack of upset, but I don’t see that you proved anything except that you found data that confirmed your preconceptions whilst you ignored the possibility that any of the other data might also have had a positive spin put on it.

An honest person doesn’t continue to post here. An honest person would seek to apologize or make amends (if they posted).

I already apologised for making you angry, which I didn’t intend. All I intended was to correct an imbalance in your argument. What I didn’t and won’t do is pretend that your all guns blazing skepticism and penny pinching attitude towards Toyotas electric data was in any way matched by your wholesale swallow of their gas efficiency figures. Pretending, just to stop your irrational anger, would be dishonest. I also think it’s dishonest to try and convince me that grey is white with a bunch of shouting and swearing.

But you sound calmer now, which is good.

I see no need whatsoever, though, for a retraction of the central point, which is the entirely one sided nature of your skepticism.

I don’t see your data as the massive gotcha that you do. Of course the manufacturers overstate the efficiency of their vehicles, who would equate marketing data with science? Only you. And only for gas, weirdly.

If you had asked around, you might have found that people think that the prius is a bit lacklustre in driving performance, not as fuel efficient as claimed, and overpriced for what it is.

But I didn’t actually buy my pure electric car for the massive running costs savings they’re just a fringe benefit. I bought it because I fell in love with how much fun it was to drive. Zoom zoom!

I’ve dealt with your kind before

People who love driving their pure electric car and live in a country with more expensive gas and cheap overnight electricity than you do? Or people who told you how they feel and made you irrationally angry as a result? People who pointed out that you were a bit one sided on some issue, or people who don’t back down just because you shout and swear at them? People who didn’t intend or want to ruin your day but did anyway because pointing out minor imperfections in your argument makes you mad?

(pure electric fast and fun vs hybrid)

which is probably why I’m enjoying my car so much more than you seem to be.

You can’t even get through your apology post before deciding to attack again.

I could be wrong, but I think my opinion that pure electric cars are faster and more fun to drive than hybrids counts as an attack in your mind.

I told you I thought it was strange that you accept Toyotas figures for gas efficiency at face value and are hugely skeptical about their figures for electrical efficiency, and I do think it’s strange. I genuinely didn’t do it to ruin your day, I did it because it seemed one sided. I also genuinely didn’t realise that you would take it so hard, but I’m not in charge of your feelings, and I’m not about to pretend that your test is even handed just because it makes you cross that I pointed out that it isn’t.

I promise you I didn’t say what I said with the purpose of making you angry, and I genuinely didn’t mean out expect to make you cross, but I think it’s odd that you think I’m unapologetic unless I make statements in support of your viewpoint, almost as if the thing that offends you most is other perspectives. Shouting and swearing at me for pointing something out hasn’t made me think that your experiment and measurements were suddenly unbiased, almost the reverse.

just insults.

The only thing I can see in what I wrote that could count as an insult is “inconsistently skeptical” and similar things. But you took Toyotas data as gospel for gas efficiency and got out your home testing kit over their electricity data. Did you think that was consistently skeptical? I think it’s a simple statement of fact, genuinely not intended as the kind of personal insult you’re taking it to be.

Come back when you actually have evidence to share

I already said that it used to cost me about five times as much to fill up on petrol a month than it does to charge it. I didn’t do unnecessarily complicated measurements to try to diagnose some problem, I just looked my electricity itemised billing and counted 100% of the electricity I got charged for on the cheap overnight tariff as money I spent on charging my car. I can’t see where you think I’ve done that wrong, but I start to worry that you don’t want my facts, you just want me to say that I was wrong and you’re going to stay angry until I do.

But the main reason I love my car is how much more fun it is to drive. I don’t think the prius is fun to drive. Pure electric cars, or at least my pure electric car is.

It’s just that you took Toyotas numbers at face value for gas but you’re extremely skeptical about their electric figures, and out of the regular car manufacturers they stuck out to me as one of the most reluctant to go electric, so it seems odd to me that you test one but seem to take the marketing figures for the other as gospel. I think you should at least do a fair test, and genuinely I’m sorry at how cross that makes you, but I don’t think you were at all even handed and I don’t see the need to pretend that you were just because you’re shouting and swearing at me a lot.

Anyway, I’m not sure me doing an additional four hours of testing will make any difference to my monthly figures. I drive way more than that every week.

My own numbers were based on actual amounts charged by my energy company and actual amounts charged at the pump vs miles actually driven, and I didn’t see any need to complicate that. I’m paying about a fifth as much for electricity as I did for petrol, but prices for electricity are low overnight here and petrol is taxed more than where you are, I guess.

You call me a purist, but I only got a pure electric car because I was pursuaded to test drive one and I fell in love with how responsive and fast it was to drive compared with all the other cars I ever drove. I don’t think the prius in particular or hybrids in general have a great reputation for being fun to drive, which is probably why I’m enjoying my car so much more than you seem to be. Certainly I wouldn’t want to go back to driving a sluggish, noisy, thirsty, expensive-to-run gas-powered car that I have to keep taking to a petrol station to fill up again, it’s just so much nicer and less hassle driving pure electric. It’s easily my favourite car ever.

I’m sorry for making you cross, but if we can trust Toyota’s figures, why not just quote Toyota’s figures? I still don’t get why your skepticism is so one-sided.

I didn’t mean to give you a bad day, but my petrol costs were soooo much higher than my electricity costs, by a factor of about five, and about 50%-60% of that saving is because overnight electricity is so cheap. Even without that, it’d still be cheaper.

But the main thing about my pure electric car is just the joy of driving. It’s so responsive, fast and smooooth. I love it.

I’m calculating money I was charged by my electricity company actually during charging hours versus miles I actually drove. (The amount of electricity my house uses at that time of night is small and ignorable.) I’m trusting the milometer, but I think that’s reasonable. It isn’t claiming it’s further to work than my previous car did!

In any case, it was almost five times as expensive on petrol as it is on electricity in my usage, and even if you adjusted the figures slightly it wouldn’t make a difference. And the pure electric car is so much more fun to drive, with so much more oomph than any other car I ever drove. I love it.

I still think it’s weird that you’re not calculating your own gas efficiency. Toyota have a vested interest in you thinking they’re doing a great job of that. I don’t know why you’re trusting their figures for gas but you’re supremely skeptical about their figures for electricity. Why would they be so inconsistently honest with you, and why are you so inconsistently skeptical?