• megane-kun@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    12·
    7 months ago

    … I actually use Arch. Sorry.

    But really, I would have gone with EndeavourOS (instead of Arch) if it were not for my friend who really strongly advocated for Arch (even installing it for me—or rather, converting my Manjaro install into an Arch one).

    If I’ve had any regrets in my Linux journey, it’s choosing Manjaro instead of EndeavourOS as my introduction to Arch-based distros.

      • sleepyTonia@programming.dev
        5·
        7 months ago

        And in my case, I kinda don’t like Endeavour OS. I installed it on my laptop to try it out a couple months ago. It looked to me like a convenient no nonsense installer for Arch with some nice defaults, then you stumble on their custom update/mirror manager nonsense. Then you want to use a printer and realize they left CUPS disabled, as if to give you an “excuse” to use systemctl. Then if you want to use Samba, you need to go out of your way to find a default config file. I’ve had to jump through more hoops and dealt with more quirky nonsense than with Manjaro stable on that distro.

        It’s like it doesn’t know who this is meant for. People who want their hand held through a GUI for something basic as updating their system, or people who love writing their own config file for everything.

        Might as well install Arch, really.

        -Other happy Manjaro user

        • Allero@lemmy.today
          4·
          7 months ago

          Exactly! That is my neverending conundrum with people going for Endeavour.

          Like, why not Arch at this point?

          Thanks for your voice!

          • Samueru@lemmy.ml
            4·
            7 months ago

            Also endeavour is not really arch with a graphical installer, or that is what I’ve seen at least.

            I tried to help someone once that installed endevouros and for some reason their kernel parameters were being overwritten every time they updated, turns out that was an issue because endeavour installed dracut instead of mkinitcpio by default? I don’t know wtf was that. They ended up switching to arch after that lol.

            Also their /efi directory was set as read-only to the root user, meaning that to even see if their kernel parameters were there they needed sudo lol

            • PolarisFx@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              3·
              7 months ago

              I just switched to Endeavour from Manjaro when I upgraded my hardware, and every update changes the default kernel on the selection screen. I go in and edit the file to change the default from lts to the latest kernel, and the next update switches it right back. It’s maddening, i could do Arch, and I’ve done it on other machines I just don’t have the time for that level of customization. I already waste enough time tinkering.

              • Samueru@lemmy.ml
                2·
                7 months ago

                You should be able to just switch mirrors, default apps and switch to arch while on endevour.

                I know you can switch from arch to artix which is a lot more stuff being replaced, so it should be much simpler to switch from endevour to arch.

                • PolarisFx@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  2·
                  7 months ago

                  I thought Endeavour was just Arch with an installer. Conversion is as simple as swapping repos and removing the eos-hooks package apparently, and depending who you ask: cleansing systemd from your system.

                • LeFantome@programming.dev
                  1·
                  7 months ago

                  You do not have to switch mirrors. EOS uses the Arch repos.

                  If you uninstall eos-hooks, it will even start reporting as Arch.

          • Allero@lemmy.today
            2·
            7 months ago

            Kinda hated, but not as much as Manjaro.

            Manjaro guy’s perspective - nicer than Endeavour, at least there is some functionality that is actually useful and justifies it being a separate distro.

            Normally, Arch folks hate Chaotic-AUR as part of Garuda, the bloat™, and the fact it’s heavily designed with hypergaming styling, which is not only not pleasing for many, but adds extra hurdles on the way to ricing.

        • LeFantome@programming.dev
          1·
          7 months ago

          I just installed EOS a couple of minutes ago and realized what you are saying.

          So, during install, you did not click on the box that says “firewall” ( selected by default ) and you did not click on the box that says “Printing support” ( not selected by default ). To you, that means that EOS does not know who it is targeting?

          These seem like sensible defaults. Regular users should use a firewall. Many systems will not connect to a printer.

          Clicking clearly presented checkboxes ( or leaving them as default ) at the point the installer asks you to seems pretty friendly. It is certainly a lot more friendly than having to know what pacman -S is and whatever the hell CUPS is ( I know what it is but “printing” seems a bit more newb friendly ).

          Not setting stuff up at install time and then complaining that it is not installed the way you want seems….”odd”. Also, the SAMBA packages for EOS come from the Arch repos. The experience adding packages post install is literally identical between the two distros.

          This is not a very compelling indictment of EOS.

          • sleepyTonia@programming.dev
            2·
            7 months ago

            I’m sure EndeavourOS is perfectly fine for the people who work on it and their core user base. That’s not my issue. It’s still happily running on my laptop. I just keep on seeing people say “Don’t use Manjaro, use EndevourOS! It’s much better.” But your average computer user would lose their shit at having to deal with those ^ issues. “You just had to enable it at installation if you wanted printing. You didn’t see the checkbox?! Oh mah gaaa” …Seriously? It’s not a checkbox to turn it back on if you miss it and should be opt-out to begin with. Are you going to tell me CUPs is a significant memory/storage drain and a gaping vulnerability in a residential network? If one’s not familiar with Linux, CUPS, pacman and Systemd it’s a huge headache for most people to get this working.

            I just think that EndeavourOS shouldn’t be presented as a Manjaro alternative for your average person, when it’s an opinionated Arch-based distro with spotty defaults aimed at somewhat experienced Linux users that want nitty-gritty control over their system. (Users which, again, might as well be using vanilla Arch if that’s fun or important to them) And it has some weird update/mirror manager that prevented me from just using pacman to update my system at one point and I had to figure out whatever it was they wanted me to use. Never had this kind of crap happen to me in Manjaro. Nor was printing disabled by default. Nor were network shares hard to get working.

    • LeFantome@programming.dev
      4·
      7 months ago

      Swing and a miss! Well, I can take solace in the fact that 99.9% of the packages you are using are in EndeavourOS too. So, I was mostly right. :)

      I also wish we could replace Manjaro with a green themed EndeavourOS. So many people could be saved the pain. Manjaro is the next biggest Linux honeypot after OpenOffice ( which exists only to ruin the experience for people that should have used LibreOffice instead ).

      Converting Manjaro to Arch in place is a labour of love. I have done it myself and it is was more steps than I expected it to be. Worth it though. Good friend.

      • Allero@lemmy.today
        4·
        7 months ago

        If Manjaro doesn’t work for you, doesn’t mean it doesn’t work for everybody

        Leave our sacred amazing green Manjaro alone!

        EndeavourOS is crap btw

        And LibreOffice has terrible UI, even if it’s feature-rich. Onlyoffice is the way to go

        Alright, enough unpopular opinions for today.

        • LeFantome@programming.dev
          2·
          7 months ago

          Once installed, EndeavourOS is literally just Arch except for perhaps a couple of optional utilities and some theming. Even the kernel is the same. So you think Arch is crap btw?

          More recent EOS installs do use Dracut. So, I guess there is one difference now ( unless you use dracut on Arch ).

          I do not mind the look of Manjaro. That is not my issue with it.

          I am fine with OnlyOffice as well. It is OpenOffice that nobody should use ( it is literally just an ancient version of LibreOffice at this point ).

          So, other than saying Arch is crap, none of your opinions from that post are unpopular with me.

          • Allero@lemmy.today
            1·
            7 months ago

            Yeah, dracut and some small differences here and there just make it more complicated to no gain, and I just don’t comprehend why would someone who installs Endeavour wouldn’t just install Arch and not depend on some random distribution that does little beyond easy set up (which has recently been shown as problematic when Endeavour team dropped ARM support).

            Arch is alright btw. It has its audience, and it serves them well. Besides, it’s an independent, but highly popular distro, which I value. It’s snappy, configurable, well-documented, and no-fuss.

            Besides, it would be weird to use Manjaro and hate its upstream. Though Mint people can experience such vibes…

            • LeFantome@programming.dev
              2·
              7 months ago

              I have been pretty happy with Dracut and have moved a few other systems to it. I used the instructions in the Arch wiki for how to do that of course. Dracut ( even in EOS ) comes from the Arch repos. Takes a couple minutes.

              EOS only moved to Dracut recently so only my newest system would be using it ( rolling updates do not change that kind of thing ). I have all my systems using it now though, including “real” Arch.

              I am less enthusiastic about systemd-boot though it does seem faster. It is just part of my bias against systemd.

              Regardless, I could certainly move any of my systems to whatever I want. Installing EOS and then migrating away from Dracut would be faster than installing Arch to begin with. Of course, just starting with EOS Galileo ( before the move to Dracut ) works just as well. A simple pacman -Syu brings you to the same place as a newer install.

              Honestly, uninstalling eos-hooks from EOS to get Arch is faster than installing yay in Arch to get the AUR ( yay and paru are both in EOS by default ).

      • megane-kun@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        2·
        7 months ago

        Well, I can take solace in the fact that 99.9% of the packages you are using are in EndeavourOS too. So, I was mostly right. :)

        Yeah, also I think EndeavourOS and Arch moved to Plasma 6 at around the same time too? I tried holding off the update to Plasma 6 for a few days but finally took the update on March 12.

        I also wish we could replace Manjaro with a green themed EndeavourOS. Manjaro is the next biggest Linux honeypot after OpenOffice.

        I think with enough faffing around customizing things in KDE Plasma, I think a green-themed EndeavourOS is doable. Would I recommend it? Not really, lol! From what I’ve seen, I‌ like EndeavourOS’ default theming.

        It’s just a shame EndeavourOS isn’t as known as Manjaro (at least during the time I first jumped into running Linux as a daily driver). But then again, with Manjaro shitting the bed becoming more known, I‌ hope EndeavorOS can take the place of Manjaro as the Arch-based distro for newbies.

        Converting Manjaro to Arch in place is a labour of love. I have done it myself and it is was more steps than I expected it to be. Worth it though. Good friend.

        Oh yeah, I was there with him when he was doing it. I can’t do any help other than cheering him on, and to have another eye on the screen making sure he doesn’t make any stupid mistakes in the process. At few points, I reminded him of the fact that I’ve backed up my files, and if things really get FUBAR, we can just do a clean install and restore the files from backup.

        • LeFantome@programming.dev
          2·
          7 months ago

          EOS uses the Arch repos. So, EOS and Arch got KDE 6 together since whatever is in the Arch repos hits them both at the same time.