I think it’s ironic this is posted here on Lemmy, which is what it is today mainly thanks to users of another service freaking out over how they will manage without their API access to bullshit aggregated content mixed with astroturfing.
Most of the people who used the 3rd party apps weren’t people who just doom scrolled shit that was fed to them. Most of them had all the default shit blocked or unsubed. It was all niche stuff the majority was subed to that had very little ad revenue for reddit. It’s why the protests didn’t really work, reddit didn’t give a shit about the million or so people who went with niche subs using 3rd party apps.
Hi, I contribute to a number of projects that require incredibly specific information to facilitate (GPGPU kernel optimizations and unit tests for BLAS) and I use Reddit to collaborate with other engineers to solve issues like doing calculus on Lie groups resulting in a divide by zero because some non-zero groups multiply to zero in the middle of the calculation. The best engineers and mathematicians I know moved here, so I moved with them to continue the dissemination of these principles. The majority of memes and shitposts offer a common forum to get real work and study done in a way that publicly offers those solutions to anyone asking the same questions. Reddit wants just the shitposts and astroturfing, so they can keep it. I have work to do.
Reddit and TikTok are incredibly different. And most of us that came over here from Reddit were there and we all saw the quality of Reddit going downhill for a long time. And when Reddit decided to try to be more like a TikTok style company, we all bailed.
So it’s not that ironic. We all willingly left when a company made one more decision screwing us over. These people are clawing at their phones to stay on an app.
I just want to not see them. I dont watch shorts and I never will. Youtube can go fuck itself because I fucking refuse to watch anything in fucking portrait mode let alone narrowed down in timescale to roughly fuck all.
That’s probably fair enough. I don’t watch shorts on any site anywhere. I tend to opt for the 20 minute 30 minute or longer videos. Sitting and working on things when I get home.
This, basically. Google took YouTube and made its algorithm push more long form content for the purpose of generating revenue from ads. Not saying TikTok doesn’t have ads in my feed but at least I can skip literally all of them.
I concede. Can’t argue with facts like that. You’d have to be brainwashed to want to be spied on by one less entity. Oh wait my mistake. You have no facts. You’re just expressing a baseless useless opinion that isn’t worth shit. Have a nice day :-)
Funnily enough. If you weren’t jumping to conclusions about things not being said. I actually agree with you on that. I think it’s hypocritical that the government is doing this. I’m still allowed and have good reason to dislike tiktoc more.
You’re welcome to go look at my post history from the last few days. I’ve made the exact argument that it is hypocritical. And believe me I’d rather move off to something like peer tube entirely. But there’s logistics still needing to be addressed before that. And currently we’re largely stuck in a few inescapabe duopolies. Least worst of two inadequate choices. And yes YouTube wins that technically by being mildly less manipulative. Not by much. Believe me I know how much their algorithm stirs the pot trying to get engagement.
And yes I know it’s not a debate. That was specifically why I said that. To point out that it wasn’t a debate that there were no accusations of fact or anything being discussed there. You were simply jumping to a conclusion that was unsupported.
I got no love for NYT. Again mister not yet month old account. Look at my post history. I regularly point out our medias fash bias. What evidence do you have that China. A country known for meddling in and manipulating business in China. Is not meddling in and manipulating this particular Chinese owned brand.
Let it not be neglected that you just moved your goalposts. But if you feel so strongly about this. Surely you must have some hard evidence to share with us poor brainwashed plebs. 😏 Starting to smell awfully hexbear/grad.
I loathe tiktok but if someone had banned Reddit while I was still using it I would have been hella mad. On the other hand it would have been “How will I manage without unhinged shitposts mixed with ads” from the outside
Either TikTok will win in court and overturn the law (possible), be sold (unlikely) or shut down (likely). I can’t see TikTok being sold being allowed by China, and even selling part of the business just creates a new global competitor to extend out of the US.
Multiple competitors will appear in the meantime hoping to get the displaced activity. TikTok is hugely profitable and a dominant replacement in the US would make a lot of money. This will be seen as an opportunity to make a lot of money for the winner.
I can see Meta trying to make a TikTok like clone, Google trying to leverage YouTube shorts, and Elon Musk trying to revive Vine at Twitter, plus lots of startups (mostly. American but possibly from other nations) vying to win the audience.
Ironically the more interesting battle may be outside the US - TikTok versus whatever US app comes along.
The deadline is after the US election - this could also all be political grandstanding and the politicians expectation might be that the law won’t stand up in court anyway.
All the public will have to do is type “tiktok.com” in their browser and their computer will connect to directly to servers in China. For now, they don’t even need a VPN.
Then our politicians will start discussing a national firewall. We’ll show that we’re better than China by doing the same things China would do (/s).
If you can use tik tok you can use a VPN. I click my VPN to start it and it auto connects. You think tapping 1 button on your phone is too hard for people who tap one button on their phone to open tik tok?
unless the bill has changed since the last time I read it, there were fines for hosting the service in US datacenters, and fines for companies allowing US data to exist in non-us datacenters. I don’t think you could interpret the bill as imposing a civil penalty to a user using a vpn and accessing it.
Exactly. I read Division H of the bill (the more important to me), and civilians would only be impacted if they distribute a banned app or something. ISPs could potentially be culpable though, but I’m pretty sure that’s related to hosting the infra for something like TikTok and not just allowing traffic to it.
So yeah, using a VPN with TikTok would totally work. Not sure if you could get updates to the app over VPN though, that depends on how the stores handle regions.
I’m saying if you’re reporting your location as the EU, could you get updates through the App Store? Or would it know you’re a US customer and disallow it, even if you report that you’re in the EU? Or does it use GPS location?
I would guess that it goes off of the lowest common denominator between IP address geo-location & billing address. If either of those say US, google/apple would probably be required not to distribute it.
If they banned lemmy and reddit you would be freaking out too. The difference is many people run their businesses on tik tok. Your making fun of people who are losing their livelihood.
Well, I’m freaking out a bit despite hating TikTok and believing it’s harmful to the average user. I don’t believe in censorship, and I think banning an app like this is a form of censorship.
That said, even if Lemmy and Reddit were banned, I would probably react similarly. I don’t need Reddit or Lemmy and can do without, but I disagree very much with the censorship.
Nah. Lemmy is a software. Reddit is an entity. They could try to ban specific Lemmy servers. They’ve tried to go after torrent tracker sites with little to no success. This wouldn’t be any different.
I think it’s illuminating and hilarious that they’re actually going through with this though. I’ve long made the statement that capitalists and Leninist are kissing cousins on all the worst possible fronts. And here’s another data point.
There’s what they claim to be and what they are. What they claim to be, is a transitional centralized system of government aimed at jump starting communism. What they are is that without a mechanism or plan to transition. Ending up in EVERY SINGLE GROUP that has tried devolving into an authoritarian suppressive system. Benefitting largely those at the top.
The Party heads in Moscow benefited far more than the average citizen of the Soviet Union. Nearly every modern Russian oligarch has a direct line that can be drawn back to former party leadership. Xi Jinping does not live in government block housing like a regular citizen. Nor do any of the families of top party members. And should a Chinese citizen complain. They will be brutally ostracized and excluded from society at best. Jailed for life or slaughtered if they’re not so lucky. Capitalists salivate about being able to do that with impunity. They still do it. Just not with impunity yet.
You use it to advertise and show off your items without having a actual shop. Tik Tok also has a shop you can buy from and you can list your items on there.
The closest thing I can think of that’s similar to it would be Etsy but instead of having just pics of your products you can have short videos of it.
Lemmy I could live without. If any users are making their livelihoods on Lemmy or Reddit, they should find something more productive to do.
by Stovetop@lemmy.world
I nominate this for the least aware comment on lemmy. We truly have a gem here. “If someone is making their living in a way I don’t understand, they should get a real job. After all, it doesn’t affect me, so it must be fine.”
Truly well-spoken, just look at all of the many high-paying jobs available to people of all skill levels, I mean, it’s not enough that an entire generation needs to hustle and convert every waking moment into opportunities to generate capital in order to barely survive… but also please do it in a way that Stovetop understands and supports. Otherwise, it’s not “productive”, whatever high-minded values that meaningless phrase is supposed to represent. Clueless.
Null empathy, null emotional intelligence, null consideration. Truly a masterpiece.
Stovetop please stay the way you are, we want to study you.
What sort of living do you think users are eking out on Reddit or Lemmy?
Social media commerce is all scams and influencers. There are much more productive things people could do to contribute to the betterment of society without trying to capitalize the brain space of gullible and vulnerable people.
The world of late stage capitalism. When “scammer” starts to become a common profession… perhaps instead of asking why everyone is becoming a scammer, ask what type of system rewards and necessistates it, and why?
There are hints in this discussion to what is wrong with the world we inhabit that leads people down this path, and that is the picture I want to draw for you.
In short, people are extremely desperate. Some might think this is just how things are, but I happen to be one of the people who thinks it is by design. The richest want to keep the workers hungry, afraid, lacking security, and the house (in which they have financial stake in) can rake in the gains. The intentional applied divisiveness of capitalism.
In that context, I wanted to point out the privileged life that you likely live in order to not realize the desperation that drives someone to capitalize on every financial opportunity available, even the crazy ones. My statement isn’t in favor of making revenue on X, Y, or Z platform, my statement is in critique over your critique of how others earn a living, as well as your disregard for their situation. I was urging you to walk a mental mile in someone else’s shoes.
Also I apologize for mocking you, it’s not personal but I couldn’t resist taking the piss out of your comment.
I mean, people probably aren’t making a living on Reddit or Lemmy, but those aren’t actually getting banned. Tiktok is, and people are actually making a living off of tiktok.
More productive? Dog they are small businesses that are using tik tok as a store front. Like how people run business through Facebook. What your saying is “fuck these people they should just go work a soul crushing job at a big corporation like me”
There are non-scam companies on TikTok. I don’t use it but it’s easy enough to see. People use it to hustle their marketing and advertising, some people even hire to fill that role.
First example that comes to mind is from years ago, but a dude started and grew a business in Miami for selling exotic fruits that are unique to Florida to anyone online. Something like $100 for a seasonal, shipped overnight, cooler of exotic fruits with info/instructions. He got a girlfriend and she made their popularity explode using TikTok. The best way I can describe her videos is making it seem like you’re bougie if you subscribe to their seasonal boxes monthly.
Whatever she did worked though. Not a scam, you pay and get the fruit.
I actually get pretty good info from TT. Lawyer insight on Trump trials, video quotes from politicians, summaries of new laws, science summaries for dummies that don’t have physics degrees, etc.
The algorithms for all those sites are way worse tho, I get much less variety of content, and much less news/politics content that interests me. Frequently those feeds area few months behind. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Users are freaking out
Oh noo how will I manage without my daily cringe worthy bullshit videos mixed with ads
I think it’s ironic this is posted here on Lemmy, which is what it is today mainly thanks to users of another service freaking out over how they will manage without their API access to bullshit aggregated content mixed with astroturfing.
Most of the people who used the 3rd party apps weren’t people who just doom scrolled shit that was fed to them. Most of them had all the default shit blocked or unsubed. It was all niche stuff the majority was subed to that had very little ad revenue for reddit. It’s why the protests didn’t really work, reddit didn’t give a shit about the million or so people who went with niche subs using 3rd party apps.
And your evidence for this is?
Hi, I contribute to a number of projects that require incredibly specific information to facilitate (GPGPU kernel optimizations and unit tests for BLAS) and I use Reddit to collaborate with other engineers to solve issues like doing calculus on Lie groups resulting in a divide by zero because some non-zero groups multiply to zero in the middle of the calculation. The best engineers and mathematicians I know moved here, so I moved with them to continue the dissemination of these principles. The majority of memes and shitposts offer a common forum to get real work and study done in a way that publicly offers those solutions to anyone asking the same questions. Reddit wants just the shitposts and astroturfing, so they can keep it. I have work to do.
Lol I feel so called out
Reddit and TikTok are incredibly different. And most of us that came over here from Reddit were there and we all saw the quality of Reddit going downhill for a long time. And when Reddit decided to try to be more like a TikTok style company, we all bailed.
So it’s not that ironic. We all willingly left when a company made one more decision screwing us over. These people are clawing at their phones to stay on an app.
I mean, you can use that approach to denigrate pretty much any activity people spend time on.
You either never used Tiktok, or you spent too much time staring at the shit videos and that ended up as your feed.
Personally, I get gardening tips, legal analysis of the trump trials, and stand up comedy. It’s great.
I only saw some videos on other’s phones.
Also I started using newpipe for youtube exactly because I don’t want an algorithm learning what I’m interested in. No way in hell I do it for tiktok.
I get that on YouTube. (Legal Eagle, Leja etc) Just a bit less CCP manipulation. Not that there aren’t issues with YouTube. Just less than TicTok.
YouTube shorts recommendations suck.
I just want to not see them. I dont watch shorts and I never will. Youtube can go fuck itself because I fucking refuse to watch anything in fucking portrait mode let alone narrowed down in timescale to roughly fuck all.
I have trouble with YouTube. It never recommends good short form content. If I could crack that, I probably wouldn’t Tiktok.
That’s probably fair enough. I don’t watch shorts on any site anywhere. I tend to opt for the 20 minute 30 minute or longer videos. Sitting and working on things when I get home.
This, basically. Google took YouTube and made its algorithm push more long form content for the purpose of generating revenue from ads. Not saying TikTok doesn’t have ads in my feed but at least I can skip literally all of them.
You are brainwashed lol
I concede. Can’t argue with facts like that. You’d have to be brainwashed to want to be spied on by one less entity. Oh wait my mistake. You have no facts. You’re just expressing a baseless useless opinion that isn’t worth shit. Have a nice day :-)
Hm funny how the government isn’t banning spying, but is asking for foreign companies to be sold? It’s okay when Facebook does it.
also lmao at this “I concede” comment bro not everything is a debate
Funnily enough. If you weren’t jumping to conclusions about things not being said. I actually agree with you on that. I think it’s hypocritical that the government is doing this. I’m still allowed and have good reason to dislike tiktoc more.
You’re welcome to go look at my post history from the last few days. I’ve made the exact argument that it is hypocritical. And believe me I’d rather move off to something like peer tube entirely. But there’s logistics still needing to be addressed before that. And currently we’re largely stuck in a few inescapabe duopolies. Least worst of two inadequate choices. And yes YouTube wins that technically by being mildly less manipulative. Not by much. Believe me I know how much their algorithm stirs the pot trying to get engagement.
And yes I know it’s not a debate. That was specifically why I said that. To point out that it wasn’t a debate that there were no accusations of fact or anything being discussed there. You were simply jumping to a conclusion that was unsupported.
The CCP manipulation story is being pushed by the very US government-friendly NYT… you’re brainwashed.
I got no love for NYT. Again mister not yet month old account. Look at my post history. I regularly point out our medias fash bias. What evidence do you have that China. A country known for meddling in and manipulating business in China. Is not meddling in and manipulating this particular Chinese owned brand.
Let it not be neglected that you just moved your goalposts. But if you feel so strongly about this. Surely you must have some hard evidence to share with us poor brainwashed plebs. 😏 Starting to smell awfully hexbear/grad.
I loathe tiktok but if someone had banned Reddit while I was still using it I would have been hella mad. On the other hand it would have been “How will I manage without unhinged shitposts mixed with ads” from the outside
Eh, I was halfway out the door for years at Reddit, I just needed a push. A ban would’ve worked the same as Reddit’s API change.
Either TikTok will win in court and overturn the law (possible), be sold (unlikely) or shut down (likely). I can’t see TikTok being sold being allowed by China, and even selling part of the business just creates a new global competitor to extend out of the US.
Multiple competitors will appear in the meantime hoping to get the displaced activity. TikTok is hugely profitable and a dominant replacement in the US would make a lot of money. This will be seen as an opportunity to make a lot of money for the winner.
I can see Meta trying to make a TikTok like clone, Google trying to leverage YouTube shorts, and Elon Musk trying to revive Vine at Twitter, plus lots of startups (mostly. American but possibly from other nations) vying to win the audience.
Ironically the more interesting battle may be outside the US - TikTok versus whatever US app comes along.
The deadline is after the US election - this could also all be political grandstanding and the politicians expectation might be that the law won’t stand up in court anyway.
TikTok has hundreds of millions of users outside the US, they may just pull out [and then US users will VPN to use it like we’re fucking Iran]
VPNs aren’t that hard, but I feel like you overestimate the technical literacy of the general public in the US.
All the public will have to do is type “tiktok.com” in their browser and their computer will connect to directly to servers in China. For now, they don’t even need a VPN.
Then our politicians will start discussing a national firewall. We’ll show that we’re better than China by doing the same things China would do (/s).
If you can use tik tok you can use a VPN. I click my VPN to start it and it auto connects. You think tapping 1 button on your phone is too hard for people who tap one button on their phone to open tik tok?
Doesn’t the bill include fines for using tiktok with a vpn?
unless the bill has changed since the last time I read it, there were fines for hosting the service in US datacenters, and fines for companies allowing US data to exist in non-us datacenters. I don’t think you could interpret the bill as imposing a civil penalty to a user using a vpn and accessing it.
Exactly. I read Division H of the bill (the more important to me), and civilians would only be impacted if they distribute a banned app or something. ISPs could potentially be culpable though, but I’m pretty sure that’s related to hosting the infra for something like TikTok and not just allowing traffic to it.
So yeah, using a VPN with TikTok would totally work. Not sure if you could get updates to the app over VPN though, that depends on how the stores handle regions.
Specifically, app stores would be required not to host it, so you’d likely have to do updates through some sort of side-loading
I’m saying if you’re reporting your location as the EU, could you get updates through the App Store? Or would it know you’re a US customer and disallow it, even if you report that you’re in the EU? Or does it use GPS location?
I would guess that it goes off of the lowest common denominator between IP address geo-location & billing address. If either of those say US, google/apple would probably be required not to distribute it.
Not that I saw.
If they banned lemmy and reddit you would be freaking out too. The difference is many people run their businesses on tik tok. Your making fun of people who are losing their livelihood.
Well, I’m freaking out a bit despite hating TikTok and believing it’s harmful to the average user. I don’t believe in censorship, and I think banning an app like this is a form of censorship.
That said, even if Lemmy and Reddit were banned, I would probably react similarly. I don’t need Reddit or Lemmy and can do without, but I disagree very much with the censorship.
Nah. Lemmy is a software. Reddit is an entity. They could try to ban specific Lemmy servers. They’ve tried to go after torrent tracker sites with little to no success. This wouldn’t be any different.
I think it’s illuminating and hilarious that they’re actually going through with this though. I’ve long made the statement that capitalists and Leninist are kissing cousins on all the worst possible fronts. And here’s another data point.
Lol wut? I don’t think you know what “leninist” means.
There’s what they claim to be and what they are. What they claim to be, is a transitional centralized system of government aimed at jump starting communism. What they are is that without a mechanism or plan to transition. Ending up in EVERY SINGLE GROUP that has tried devolving into an authoritarian suppressive system. Benefitting largely those at the top.
The Party heads in Moscow benefited far more than the average citizen of the Soviet Union. Nearly every modern Russian oligarch has a direct line that can be drawn back to former party leadership. Xi Jinping does not live in government block housing like a regular citizen. Nor do any of the families of top party members. And should a Chinese citizen complain. They will be brutally ostracized and excluded from society at best. Jailed for life or slaughtered if they’re not so lucky. Capitalists salivate about being able to do that with impunity. They still do it. Just not with impunity yet.
How do you run a business on TikTok?
They provide a shop front interface called TikTok Shop. It’s something Meta has been wanting to do for awhile in WhatsApp.
You use it to advertise and show off your items without having a actual shop. Tik Tok also has a shop you can buy from and you can list your items on there.
The closest thing I can think of that’s similar to it would be Etsy but instead of having just pics of your products you can have short videos of it.
no, would just switch to 4chan. That’s my last option, lol
I would love it if the government banned Reddit.
Lemmy I could live without. If any users are making their livelihoods on Lemmy or Reddit, they should find something more productive to do.
I nominate this for the least aware comment on lemmy. We truly have a gem here. “If someone is making their living in a way I don’t understand, they should get a real job. After all, it doesn’t affect me, so it must be fine.”
Truly well-spoken, just look at all of the many high-paying jobs available to people of all skill levels, I mean, it’s not enough that an entire generation needs to hustle and convert every waking moment into opportunities to generate capital in order to barely survive… but also please do it in a way that Stovetop understands and supports. Otherwise, it’s not “productive”, whatever high-minded values that meaningless phrase is supposed to represent. Clueless.
Null empathy, null emotional intelligence, null consideration. Truly a masterpiece.
Stovetop please stay the way you are, we want to study you.
What sort of living do you think users are eking out on Reddit or Lemmy?
Social media commerce is all scams and influencers. There are much more productive things people could do to contribute to the betterment of society without trying to capitalize the brain space of gullible and vulnerable people.
That is a good question.
The world of late stage capitalism. When “scammer” starts to become a common profession… perhaps instead of asking why everyone is becoming a scammer, ask what type of system rewards and necessistates it, and why?
There are hints in this discussion to what is wrong with the world we inhabit that leads people down this path, and that is the picture I want to draw for you.
In short, people are extremely desperate. Some might think this is just how things are, but I happen to be one of the people who thinks it is by design. The richest want to keep the workers hungry, afraid, lacking security, and the house (in which they have financial stake in) can rake in the gains. The intentional applied divisiveness of capitalism.
In that context, I wanted to point out the privileged life that you likely live in order to not realize the desperation that drives someone to capitalize on every financial opportunity available, even the crazy ones. My statement isn’t in favor of making revenue on X, Y, or Z platform, my statement is in critique over your critique of how others earn a living, as well as your disregard for their situation. I was urging you to walk a mental mile in someone else’s shoes.
Also I apologize for mocking you, it’s not personal but I couldn’t resist taking the piss out of your comment.
I mean, people probably aren’t making a living on Reddit or Lemmy, but those aren’t actually getting banned. Tiktok is, and people are actually making a living off of tiktok.
More productive? Dog they are small businesses that are using tik tok as a store front. Like how people run business through Facebook. What your saying is “fuck these people they should just go work a soul crushing job at a big corporation like me”
Didn’t know scamming people was such a nice business.
There are non-scam companies on TikTok. I don’t use it but it’s easy enough to see. People use it to hustle their marketing and advertising, some people even hire to fill that role.
First example that comes to mind is from years ago, but a dude started and grew a business in Miami for selling exotic fruits that are unique to Florida to anyone online. Something like $100 for a seasonal, shipped overnight, cooler of exotic fruits with info/instructions. He got a girlfriend and she made their popularity explode using TikTok. The best way I can describe her videos is making it seem like you’re bougie if you subscribe to their seasonal boxes monthly.
Whatever she did worked though. Not a scam, you pay and get the fruit.
There are a bunch of artists who sell commissions and stuff through tiktok too. Kinda hard to call that a scam.
So people selling on Ebay is a scam? People selling on Etsy is a scam?
I actually get pretty good info from TT. Lawyer insight on Trump trials, video quotes from politicians, summaries of new laws, science summaries for dummies that don’t have physics degrees, etc.
Then again, the algorithm knows I skip a lot of dumb shit… cept the funny cat videos.
You are right, they should ban lemmy too since it’s used for propaganda by anticapitalists! /s
For real.
Like a dozen social media apps already have reals or shorts or some shit that’s basically tiktok. They’re all shitty and invasive, but so is tiktok.
The algorithms for all those sites are way worse tho, I get much less variety of content, and much less news/politics content that interests me. Frequently those feeds area few months behind. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Having used all three major ones, TikTok’s algorithm is head and shoulders above theirs.
https://lemm.ee/comment/11472049